He Lingwei: Last week,Yang Fuyin came back to Hunan to exhibit his paintings.I saw you on the opening
ceremony. It seems that later you took your daughter to the exhibition for a second watch.She is learning
to paint pictures.Iwonder what a senior high school girl thinks of Yang Fuyin's paintings.
Song Yuan: I intentionally took my daughter to the exhibition,not just because shi is learning painting.I
think taht a youth,if with some talents in art, would not be completely indifferent before Yang Fuyin's
paintings,event though he is not trained in a professional way.She has seen some pictures before,the
ones which were tried as breakthroughs in the Chinese painting;and often she has little liking to them.
She has read Picasso;and she has read Dail.She has seen,more often than not,some good pictuers.My
daughter,you know,is the sort of student of high standards as if she had her eyes on the forehead.She
instinctively rejects anything that is stereotypical.There is undoubtedly something rebellious in the traits
of her character and she likes things unconventional.That day,in front of Yang Fuyin's paintings.she was
silenced down.Later,she said that she was very surprised. It was probably because she has never seen
such Chinese painting before,and she never knows that the Chinese painting can be brushed in this way.
And of course,it was also because she is learning painting.She sional training that makes it possible for
her to feel more of the impact from Yang Fuyin's paintings.Small wonder that she was surprised.
Then she said,Areal treat.
It is something like Dou Wei's music,she though for a while and remarked.
He Liwei:Dou Wei's music is nice.His music is that of avant-guard,not popuar music.His music is rich in
ideas,not the sort of music which sounds pleasant to the ear but does not touch the soul.I think in the
field of rock music in China,Cui Jian,Dou wei and Zhang Chu are doing such musical things that move
one beside himself.What Iwant to say is that artist look at paintings in a very professional way.But a high
school student may do that from a different point of view and make suprising comments.We are both
writers.Our view is sure to be different from that of painters .Though we are chatting about the art outside
the gate as if we were scratching one outside the shoeleather,it is not necessarily the case that we do not
have an encounter with truth.I mean that painters do not paint totally for artists. They paint for more
people,people including you and me .So our view is nevertheless a voice.
Song Yuan:As a matter of fact,inChinese tradition,paintings and poetries were very much interrelated.
It is quite common that poets and eassayists have a high perspicacity in painting.There are the ones
who are the poet,the essayist and painter in one.Examples in the remote past include Tang Bohu,in the
near past Feng Zikai,in recent past Wang Zengqi and in the present you. Isuppose this has something to
do with something to which particuar care has been devoted in traditional Chinese art.That something
is what is usually called"taste".This"taste"is somewhat unexplainable.Though it is not certain that such
talk on painting as from us outside the gate of painting will surely encounter truth,it is not necessarily the
case that what we say is wrong. What's more,without professional confinement,what we get is freedom
rather than burden.Our talk being led by interest,we get the very"taste".
He Liwei:The Deft Sima Art Gallery entitled the exhibition of Yang Fuyin"The Artistc Return of the Native".
This is the title of my article in Hunan Daily.It was done in two senses.One is that Yang Fuyin,living
abroad in Guangzhou,retnrned to Changsha,his hometown,to give an exhibition for his fellow townsmen.
The other is that Yang Fuyin,with his cultural background rooted in Hunan,is to track back to the root in
the practice of art.Last year,Yang Fuyin gave an exhibition in Qi Baishi Museum in Xiangtan.It has been
eight years since he left Painting Academy of Hunan for Guangzhou and this is the first time in the eight
years I have seen a collection of his works.You always surprise us,I said to him.Years ago,when he was
in hunan,we were in close contact with each other.I often went to his studio to look at his paintings and to
chat.Ithink there is sone affinity between him and me.Therefor we became close friends.Aming painters
in Hunan,two has read many works in literature,one is Zhang Wei,the other is Yang Fuin.Yang Fuyin has
read all of my novels published in the eighties. Onces he wrote for me:"The subject matters are ordinary,
but the style is casual'.I think he is quite understanding.Yang Fuyin reads books of all kinds,ancient and
modern,Chinese and foreign.So even at that time,compared with the paintings of others,his were more of
a scholar's style,contained more elegance,and had more tranquitlity.So even at that time I was fond of his
paintings.Many painters are good at techniques,event at remarkable techniques.But their paintings are
vulgar,whereas Yang Fuyin'sare elegant.What is the difference?It's that of frontier.Essence does not lie in
techniques.The most elevated frontier in classical Chinese poetry and painting is the mind It is tempera-
ment.No idea, no setting.While what many writer lack is nothing but the idea.Yang Fuyin has the idea,so
he looks for corresponding setting,and that's his pictural language and his design.Before he leaft for
Guangzhou,I think he drew inspiration from folk wood-carvings and blue-and-white porcelains.He does
not stick to convention.He would feel ill at ease if he did not paint even for s day,He began a new reflection
and exploration on the Chinese figure painting.His paintings at that time still had traces of the style of
paintings of man-of-letters.He was not totally free from tradition and influence of various kinds.His paintings
were pretty good,though.Eight years later,when I saw hhis paintings in Xiangtan,I wasrather suprised by
his change in style.There were many Hunan artists,writer and reporters there.I think I was not the only one
who got a surprise.The paintings were so good,so attractive.I had the strong feeling that Yang Fuyin's
Chinese figure paintings were totally free from tradition formulas of picyorial languahe.His pictorial language
not only enhance his unique personality,but also is a breakthrough in the Chinese figure painting.It can be
said that he has made a revolutionary contribution to the language.He has got a new language awareness.
That's nothing unimportant.As a matter of fact,he is doing something remarkable,something quite remarkable.
Just think,how magnificent it is that one's paintings have the essence of brush and ink in Chinese figure
painting while the traditional pictorial language is not seen.
Song Yuan:Led by interest,I've seen some pictures here and there,and I know about many painters,especially
those in the field of the Chinese painting.who are making efforts to renovate tradition in somewhat the same
way as renovations in novels are made.From my point of view,more of them succeed in renovating traditional
Chinese landcape than they do in the figure painting.A typical picture is that of a naked lady either standing
or sitting or laing on a somewhat seemingly classical background.The picture looks quite nice,of course.But
readers see more of the pains the painters take than the apparently modern an revolutionary lady.The picture
is rather rigid.What it lacks is what you call ideational setting.Yang Fuyin's paintings are absolutely renovating
and revolutionary and still rich in ideational setting.That is very difficult.To be fair,renovation in the Chinese
figure painting is undoubtedly quite difficult.The development in the Western figure oainting benefits from the
flourishing of science,for example,optics,chemistry,geology and medicine.Have s look at some Western oils,
even printed oils,and you'll see hoew touching it is the comprehrnsion and dealing with the light ang the
colour.These sciences were flourishing in ancient China, but it has been difficult for them to infiltrate into art.
Why?There is surely some reason for it.From the very beginning,the Chinese painting and the Western
painting have been judged in different ways.The Chinese painting values taste,spirit and ideational setting.
There aer unmeasurable.They do not come from science.They are just related to one's maturity and his
inborn temperament. To discard them is like attending to the trivialities and neglect the fundamentals.That is
not worthwile.When I look at the paintings which were tried to have the Chinese painting and the Western
painting in one, I can't help thinking that such efforts bring us no benefit.
Wang Zengqi once told a story about painting a picture,saying that once he was painting an ink ang wash
of early spring.When it was done,he felt that there should be something more in it.He got a few leaves from
spinach and squeezed several drops of juice onto the painting.He though that was the taste.
I got acquainted whith Yang Fuyin fairly late,not the way you did.Before that,I had seen his paintings and
read his articles.I have read many uninteresting articles by many writers and I felt thar his articles are
interesting ones.
He Liwei:I have said that Yang Fuin had read books of various kinds.He writes in the way landscape painters
make pictures.Many people have also read many books and they are very good readers,but their articles are
taseless.It's matter of temperament.Only people with temperament write tasteful articles.This is definitely ture.
Readers find in both his paintings and articles temperament and striking wittiness.Wittiness is something
extraordinary.A painting or an article with wittiness makes you unable to tear yourself away from it.I think
wittiness is primarily inborn.It's innate wisdom.Of course,his articles are byproducts of his paintings.Even so,
his articles are better than those by many so-called writers.And it is agreed that a writer's maturity is not
judged by his novels,but by his essays.
Let's come back to talk about Yang Fuyin's paintings.Though only 40 odd pictures are presented in the
exhibition of "The Artistic Return of the Native," they are his latest works.Yang fuyin once told me that he
scheuled to paint one thousand pictures a year.He works so diligently as to study and explore a new room
of expression in the Chinese figure painting.He wants a breakthrough in essence from that in number.I think
in Guangzhou he lives in solitude,a solitude in culture and emotion.That makes him able to concentrate on
painting.He painted,were articles,did reading and above all,reflected.He told me that in Guangzhou he did
not have much contact witch people,nor with the market.In doing so,He wants to do one thing important in
figure painting.Years ago,when he was in Hunan,Yang Fuin had many friends.Visits between friends brough
nothing of quietness.What's more,there were many merchants who came to buy his paintings.As far as I
know,at that time ,Yang Fuin's paintings sold at ten thousand RMB per square chi.Therefore when he arrived
in Guangzhou,Yang Fuyin had the intention of refusing chi.Therefore when he arrived in Guangzhou,Yang
Fuyin had the intention of refusing the disturbances of interpersonal and monetary affairs.At the talk meet
about the exhibition in Xiangtan he said that when he got to Guangzhou he had cut off from all painting
dealer from Southeast Asia and Taiwan,Hongkobg,and mainland areas of China.He said these words with
his face covered with a tragic could that reminds me of the legends about heroes cutting off one arm and
fightiing on the guest bank.You know many Hunan painters are trying to markets,even of the adjustment of
their paintings to meet the taste of markets.So they draw many things pipulary referred to as"professional
paintings",much in the way as the popular writers are always thinking about writing popular fictions to earn
a large amount of copies printed and distribution tax paid.Such deeds as"to meet the popular taste"are
denied access to the world of Yang Fuyin.Yang Fuyin makes a thousand paintings a year but he never takes
up his brush for even a single one of the occasional genre.That is to the above painter as the clear flow is to
the muddy torrents of waters.Yang Fuyin wants to do something of value in the figure painting.He has
inspiring ambitions.He once wrote a letter to me,saying that before the fifties of the 20th century,the Chinese
painters of greatest achievement were Wu Chsngshuo,Qi Baishi and Huang Binhong.But in the tens of years
after that, there was almost no one who became their paralles.But these three great artists are not figure
painter. So the figure painting brought no master to the history of the Chinese painting of the recent one
hundred years.Yang Fuyin made such an observation in a synchronic and diachronic way ang found
himself for the mission.He said to me in letter,"I know very well that it's difficult for oneto fulfil agreat task,so
I must devote myself to the mission.I have to waste no time,paint in a large quantity and cut away from the
markets".He is a man of great determination and a man who does what he says."The Artistic Return of
Native"exhibition is quite different from the one in Xiangtan last year.It present a great artistic leap-forward.
I think his paintings exhibited this year have already placed him in the most avant-guard fontiers of the
Chinese figure painting.His paintings become more modern,more open and more.I especially like his serial
of the mother and bady.He has reduced his pictorial language to the simplest and at the same time the
simplicity embodies the most rich.The least lines haves the most tension.And lines and pictorial language
broken away from the form have their independent value for aesthetics.This reminds me of Wang Zengqi's
words.He says,"That I write novels is to write the language".Literature is an art of language,and the figure
painting is that of lines.It's highly demanding that languang and lining get charm.Take for example,the
way I look at Matisse.I'm never interested in what he paints,but in how he paints.That is to say,Iappreciate
the tastefulness of his lines.It's no problem for one who has got training in painting to draw a chicken,but
who draws a chicken with such interest as Qi Baishi did?From this point of view,I think that Yang Fuyin
paints without stop because he wants to solve some big problems in the Chinese figure painting.For
example,the problem of lining,of surface construction and of colour.His efforts are different from those
of others.The difference is between techniques and principles.He wants to solve the problem at the leve
of principle.
Song Yuan:Lines are important as life to the Chinese painting.In childhood,I read a serial of pictorial books
of legendary Three Kingdoms.Lines are used for the pictures all the way through.My later love for literature
was quite related to the numerous figures of striking individualities in that set of books.A few years ago,I
saw a new set of pictorial books of Three Kingdoms and felt that they are not as good as those in my
childhood.This is partially because of my preoccupation,partially prejudice.The pictures i red many years
ago impressed themselves on me very deeply.What is to be image of Cao Cao,what's that of Liu Bei and
what's that of Sun Quan?The lines that shape these figures printed themselves deeply on my mind.I think
the lines in the Chinese painting are terrific.Lines make images.Always.But the term terrific might fail to
describe the lines in the paintings of Yang Fuyin.In my opinion,he has fundamentally expanded the
function of the lines have ever had acquired.It is not too much to refer to the expabsion as a revolution.
In the figure paintings he presented in this exhibition,the lines naturally fulfil the function of object
presentation.But in the mean time they obviously have separate aesthetic qualities.Every line from his
brush,together with the enchantment the line presents betond the object of presentation,proves the
striking originality of his work,much the same way as a masterpiece is a masterpiece when judged as a
whole and a masterpiece when judged sentence by sentence.This is rare.The forms composed by his
original lines naturally present various significances and temperaments beyond the forms and this is
what we often refer to as greatness.I agree with you on the idea of wittiness.In the professional circle of
art,most people find themselves presenting techniques however hard they be.The wittiness,the inborn
faculties are dufficult to find.Yang Fuyin must have found himself with witty temperaments.Yes,artistic
giftedness does not come to one by chance,but also as a fruit of personal awareness.
And I know that the renovation brought to the traditional Chinese painting present enormous
self-consciousness so that one can find out his ideals from his paintings.Such a self-consciousness
is not only the fruit of mere inspiration but also that of knowledge,thechinques,pursuits and the like,and the
hard work in reclusion of eight years.You talked of the simplicity of the lines in his paintings and I believe
the simplicity is quite related to his self-consciousness.And only with such self-consciousnes can the artist
conceive well before the brush movement with one line fulfilling the tasks of ten.
He Liwei:From a certain aspect,the history of Chinese figure painting is the history of lining.Yang Fuyin,
with great boldness,put forward a theory of anti-lining which on the one hand is the most essential
inheritance of the traditional figural lining,and on the other hand new form of lining as the fruit of renovation
on the basis of tradition.I believe Yang Fuyin's pondering and practice on the lining of Chinese figure
painting are for the sake of something important,that is,the extreme of great emancipation of the functions
of the line.From the painting exhibited this time we know that his hard work was quite effective.His lines
break off with the confinement of the forms and acquire the stage of perforamnce.And his lines become the
principles rather than the techniques.And in other words,his paintings brough new aesthetic demands to
the lining approaches of the Chinese figure painting.Such aesthetic demands require more modern,more
revolutionary and brave new forces of expression from the lining of the Chinrsr figure painting.The
demands,in the terms of computer language,are"refreshed"and"updated".At the talk meet,I talked about my
feelings.I felt that these paintings of Yang Fuyin have the essences of the brush and ink of the Chinese
figure painting and striking exoticness at the same time,something like my sensations of the various
marvels of Matisse and Lin Fengmian.The exoticness of these paintings is quite different from the
exoticness of these paintings is quite different from the exoticness of the other chinese figure paintings I
saw elsewhere before.It is different because it has extremely striking sense of emancipation.It is the
exoticness of the artist with the cultural perspective of China,not the exoticness of someone wearing the
dresses of the Western style with a toothbrush placed in the upper pocket.We are now fond of one
fashionable term"the allocation of resources".I feel that Yang Fuyin is trying to reach the most ideal and
effective allocation of the most traditional resources and the most modern resources that is bringing into
birth a new aesthetic manner of the Chinese figure painting.
And of course all strivings aim at the final verification of the outputs.As a painter,one aims at the
identification of his paintings,because paintings are the terminals of the ideological and artistic conceptions
of the painter.I feel that at that talk meet,which nese figure painting,not for the sake of mere courtesy,but
out of sincerity of the mind.The emancipation of the lining of Chinese figure painting won special
identification and appreciation from many.Yang Fuyin had decided to fulfil one thing important in the
Chinese figure painting.And here one can see the good beginning of the thing.
Song Yuan:Let's come to the artistic simplicity.It is not merely an average issue,but a great artistic task.The
simplicity in the Chinese art is very much elevated and beautiful frontier.It's difficult to reach because it is
not equal to few or little.You might find complexities in a short article of one thousand characters,but you
may discover simplicity in a lengthy writing of a hundred thousand characters,but you may discover
simplicity in a lengthy writing of a hundred thousand characters.The same is the case of painting.The
paintings of Yang Fuyin present a fresh style of manner of simplicity that is very illuminating and that brings
a new effect.I can taste the decidedness overflowing in the paper,set and sincere.Though his paintings took
on several changes of style in the past few years,we saw many indulgent changes in the paintings of the
other exhibitions,we could always easily find fashion there, and therefore we could always easily find the
results of such indulgences gone with the wind.The paintings of Yang Fuyin demonstrate great decidedness.
He knows what he wants and what he does not want,so that he can reach the frontiers of simplicity and so
that he can bring great artistic tension to the simplicity.
The serial of the mother and baby presents sensual bodies with every brushstroke soaked in emotions but
still recollected in gentility and tranquility which turn out to be decided and well restrained.
He Liwei:The paintings collected in this albim and the paintings exhibited inChangsha this time brought me
great and striking impacts of the form.As to the sense of the form of the Chinese figoure painting,Lin
Fenmian made many useful and fruitful explorations.But I find that some of his paintings marked by
ornamentality reaching the point of excess.The sense of the form is pretty well governed in some of the
paintings of Yang Fuyin.I remember that you talked at the conference about his mastery of the"degree".I
believe that at such a level of maturity,Yang Fuyin can never fail to govern himself in the artistic exploration
and artistic mastery.He has good measurement.Some time ago in the discussion of the music composition
of Tan Dun,there was a professor named Bian Zushan who gave violent attack to Tan Dun,saying that Tan
Dun is play with the forms in the art.I believe Professor Bian was so scholarlistic as far as I am concerned.
At a given stage of artistic development,one must play with the forms.Because in the times when art
demands remands renovation the form is the content or in other words,the form produces the content.I
mysely am against the dualistic opposition of the form and the content.Tan Dun is absolutely a genius of
music.He played out the new content by way of the form.One example is the water music he played in
Hunan not long ago.The water sounds carry special senses of the form,but embedding very deep
deposition of the Chinese culture and his individual experiences of life,including the memories of the
waters of the Liuyanghe River in his childhood life.How can one say that his music composition are merely
formal constructions.The paintings of Yang Fuyin present the senses of the forms,with the content
embedded in such forms.It is not that old bottles hold new spirits and not that new bottles hold old spirits
but that new bottles hold new spirits.My presonal aesthetic taste includes spcial appreciation of things with
senses of the forms,but of course,on condition that they are the new foorms and the forms with striking
individuslity.In the sense of form of Yang Fuyin,there are the two factors of novelty and individuality.That's
why I like his paintings.As far as my knowledge of Yang Fuyin is concerned,he always possesses a special
sensitivity to the form.This is a very talent.I believe that all good artists have special sensitivity to the form.
This is a very talent.I believe that all good artists have special sensitivity to the form,Picasso and Tan Dun,
for example.I have not acquainted with Picasso,but Tan Dun is my friend.The most striking aspect of Tan
Dun's art is the form.His forms are those not found in the history of music.Tan Dun is a cleverr artist,and
knowing that it is very difficult to bring new contributions to the content of the music,he chooes to
breakthrough in the form,and to make the breakthrough present new content.Both Tan Dun and Yang Fuyin
were born in Changsha,and they had something in common in their moods of thinking.By the way,Tan Dun
is a very clever guy,very agreeable,and I like him very much,both the work and the man.Yang Fuyin is also
clever and agreeable,and therefore I like him very much,the work and the man ,again.I always classify people
into two types of interests and one of on interest,but of outstanding interests.And states of their lives are
fulfilled with senses of the forms.
Song Yuan:There is almost no doubt about the importance of the sense of the form.Of all arts,There is no
one that is more obliged and convenient to stress the importance of the sense of the form than the fine arts.
When we came to the relation between the content and the form in the past,we paid much attention to the
distinctions;and in the general theories of arts,the content and the form were discussed separately,always
neglecting their mutual interactions or the transfiguration as you termed the form is the content.But apart
from Yang Fuyin,there are many who seek the artistic breakthroughs in the form.As matter of fact,the efforts
of the circles of painters these years mostly concentrated in the form.But why there are only few people who
end in cuccess.There are many reasons,and I believe one of them is the degree of formal endeavours.There
is the problem of degree in all arts.Yang Fuyin had his renovations by way of the form and won popular
appreciation of sincerity.This is due to his mastery of the degree.Many artists who set out to make efforts
on the form finish up almost with self-drowning due to the erroneous mastery of the degree.The degree is
hard to mesure and difficult to master.To put it more clesrly,it takes intellectual power to master the degree.
To go deeper,the most immediate and most relate power is probably what is usually termed the artstic
sensibility.
As far as we know,sensibility includes much of the inborn qualities.You said that Tan Dun and Yang Fuyin
are men of outstanding interests,and you are very to the point.Whether a man is of interests or not depends
on the born nature.Yang Fuyin is a man of interests.I saw the manner of him playing cards,the manner the
hand that ususlly stretches out to hold a painting brush,taking the cards with carefulness,and saw the
manner of the hand patting the card on the table, and saw the manner of him uttering humourous sentences
while playing cards and saw the manner of him crying with a Changsha accent in altered ways of regret and
happinese,and I concluded that he is a man of interests.In my random opinion,that Yang Fuyin may achieve
much inthe art is quite related to that he is a man of interests.I always believe that people bron without
interests are not very suitable for a career of artistic creation.If a man devotes his lifetime to art but achieve
little of greatness,the cause is probably that he is a man of no interests.Of course,lack of interests is not a
personal error.Some of the people I know are the people of no interest, but they are all good people.People
of no interest might have a career in any area beyond that of art.
And i had marginal profit from the painting of Yang Fuyin,that is,when one chooses his professional career,
he must do it with great care.Choice is something of great importance.
He Liwei:It is something interesting to talk about Yang Fuyin.That's why we chatted this much.Probably we
touched something and probably nothing.But what is the difference?To talk about the paintings outside the
gate of paintings,as I said,we had a sense of brarrier.But the voice outside the gate is a kind of voice.Yang
Fuyin chose to go painting and you and I chose to go writing,all led by interests.Writing is good in that it
always brings me pleasures.And Yang Fuyin paints a thousand pictures a year and I believe that if painting
does not bring him spiritual pleasures,he must be doing something like hard manual jobs.Painting is not a
technique to Yang Fuyin,but a form of life,an interesting form of life.Guangzhou is a context that rejects him
in the cultural way.But he benefits from this.He wins solitude,which may single him out to be a great artist.
I believe there is only the problem of time.Of writers,and artists as well,those who can creat great works are
all solitary.Kuriyagawa Haskuson said that literature is the symbol of sorrow.I think that painting is also the
symbol of sorroe.Every time I read the new paintings of Yang Fuyin,I'm surprised,not only for the form.I feel
that there is grest release of the experiences of him standing at Wumen Gate alone.He says:The world is
cold,and something in the painting of Yang Fuyin is warm.So I'm surprised,and I'm somewhat moved.Art,if
it is not moving,is something like dog shit.
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